Why does God insist on punishing the innocent throughout the bible? Ex 34:6,7 – “… and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children & upon the children’s children, unto the third and fourth generation.” And there are many, many more examples.
This entry was posted on December 16, 2007 at 1:02 pm and is filed under -THE CRUELTY OF THE CREATOR with tags agnostics, Atheism, Atheists, Bible is a Lie, Born Again Atheist, Creationism, Faith, Free from Religion, Freedom From Religion, Genesis, God is a Lie, God is Dead, Intelligent Design, No God, Religion, Religion is a Cancer, Skeptics, There is No God. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
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Doubting Thomas' Weblog 
December 31, 2007 at 1:16 am
No ones innocent. As the Bible clearly states through out its work, that no man is perfect, and that all men are deserving of death.
January 2, 2008 at 12:26 pm
So your answer is that everyone is born a sinner, correct. Just so I’m clear, a newborn baby that dies of any of the numerous ailments that can affect them is doomed to burn in eternal hellfire because your god is such an intolerant prick? And you choose to dedicate your life to such a monster? And you want me to do the same? Friend, even if you could prove that your god was real, and, of course, you can’t, still I would not worship him. For what possible reason would I? Fear? Sorry, the bully that repeatedly beat me up in elementary school didn’t deserve my adoration and neither does your god.
Thank you for your comment.
January 3, 2008 at 6:38 am
God will handle the innocent babies accordingly. They have yet to willfully sin, so they will be in Heaven. Jesus had high admoration for children, God doesn’t beat you up the bully beat you up. You always blame God for mistakes that are clearly done by man. You want God to not be controlling and stop interferring with life, then at the same time you want him to save everything that man destroys.
January 4, 2008 at 2:57 am
[[[You always blame God for mistakes that are clearly done by man. You want God to not be controlling and stop interferring with life, then at the same time you want him to save everything that man destroys.
I think you’re confusing me with someone else. I’ve NEVER blamed your god for man’s actions. How can I blame something that doesn’t exist? And I didn’t blame your god for the bully’s actions. How did you get that impression? And I don’t want your god to not be controlling and stop interfering with peoples lives because he NEVER DOES, because he doesn’t exist. I don’t want him to save everything that man destroys because he can’t. He doesn’t exist. Only man can save man. This post was under the Category THE CRUELTY OF THE CREATOR. These posts are all meant to be examples of how the god depicted in the bible is cruel, merciless and constantly sets up, manipulates and punishes the innocent.
Also, you aren’t being consistent. If everyone is born a sinner and deserving of death, ‘willful sin’ is not an issue. Can someone who never accepts Jesus as their personal saviour but never ‘willfully’ sins go to heaven? And at what age does God stop taking these innocent children into his kingdom? 11 months? 23 months? 5 years? Just when is a child capable of ‘willful’ sin and therefore deserve death?
January 4, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I am being consistent… No one can not willfully sin, we are sinful by nature, it is apart of us. At what age does one fully recognize the decisions they are making and that what they do is wrong? When one becomes fully aware that they do wrong, they are then held accountable. The reason why I say you blame God, is because you do. If not don’t make a site about God being unmerciful or being a bully. You spend so much time attempting to state your opinion about answers to things you cannot begin to understand. Your putting what is supposedly the Creator of the Universe into your box on how you think the world should go. Your saying if God existed the world would be this and that. You are a mere man who cannot control anything, and your trying to tell me how the Creator of the Universe should act? Why doesn’t he do this or that? I tell you he already fixed the world when He sent Jesus down to die for our sins. He had a plan, you may not think its a plan, but on the other hand what difference does it make on what you think, you live on earth for a mere 70years and then turn to dust. These circular arguments go no where, simply do to the fact that you don’t understand God. Even Christians don’t fully comprehend God, I’ll tell you straight up right now, I wish God would just show himself to us. But i know this still would not affect everyone. People would doubt, make suggestions that its just a fake video, or that its Hollywood. Even the Bible shows that when God revealed himself to the Hebrews they shortly after disobeyed and began worshiping idols. So I’m not convinced that if God revealed himself to the world right now everyone would believe, and the only way God could get all to believe is if He took away free will.
January 5, 2008 at 11:39 am
[[When one becomes fully aware that they do wrong, they are then held accountable.]]
I LOVE how you zig zag as you try, desperately, to answer the question of what happens to the innocents who die before their time. You say we are all born sinners, but babies are exempt and get a free pass into heaven. You say no one can not willfully sin — except those who aren’t of an age to be able to recognize that what they are doing is wrong. I assume this includes the innocent babies, but who else exactly; toddlers? Preschoolers? People with brain damage? The mentally retarded? People with Down Syndrome? What’s the cut-off-age for this free pass from god you mention? What level of mental retardation? Does it have to be natural born retardation? How about an evil serial killer who gets in a car accident and suffers severe brain damage and spends the rest of his days in a care facility being kind and sweet and child-like but incapable of comprehending the concept of God and eventually dies of old age?
And again you ignore what was previously said. You stated that I blamed God for actions that were clearly man’s, when I never have. THAT was my point. I don’t ‘blame’ God for anything because that would be the same as blaming Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. And I depict the god of the bible as a merciless bully because that is how he is depicted in the pages of the bible.
Also, the reason these circular arguments don’t go anywhere isn’t due to the fact that I don’t understand a fictional being but because you refuse to scrutinize your own religious beliefs. Your arguments all suffer from the same weakness; an absolute unwillingness to concede that the stories in the bible are unreliable, inaccurate, twisted, perverted and full of atrocities, and that the god depicted in its pages is a cruel, manipulative, merciless, petulant, brooding, unfair, careless, bloodthirsty, intolerant, bigoted, flawed, short tempered, short sighted, reckless, dictator.
March 9, 2013 at 10:58 am
I don’t believe that brookrobinson is operating in the form of this debate. You despise God, yet you say that he is a fictional being. Okay. Let’s go at it from this perspective. You say that you wouldn’t worship him even if it was proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he exists. I do not see the debate, nor the reason that you would even have a page on the subject. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. If God is God (i.e. He created all, knows all, sees all, etc), then he deserves worship. Who are we mortals to judge him, or his actions? From your viewpoint, he is petulant, unfair, cruel, etc. Okay. We are discussing a fictional character in your eyes. If he were a fictional character, what are his motivations? We cannot begin to know, because we do not have that information in the fictional text. What the text does say, however, and since it is only fiction, is that there are two separate and distinct kinds of people in this world. There are the Children of Belial and the Children of God. The Children of Belial are the children of pain, suffering, violence, malice, hate, and so on. These God has decreed will descend into eternal death and be no more when he restores the universe to its once pristine and perfect condition before sin entered into it. The most interesting thing about the Bible and a subject that could have endless debate and ramifications that are too vast to ignore is, just what is sin? Is it some personification, a being, a force, a symbol, or what? No one can tell you with absolute surety whatsoever just what sin is, other than the commission of it. The Bible says that this “sin” must be placated and has the requirements to be pacified by the spilling of innocent blood. In order to not stray too far, I have said enough about that, I will return to the two different types of people in the world. The other group is the Children of God. “Their names were recorded in the Lamb’s (Jesus) Book of Life before creation”. Before anyone was ever born and the world was created, the names of those damned and saved were written in the Book of Life. This is the book that tells whether or not you get eternal life or eternal death and damnation. From a fictional standpoint, I would consider whether or not my name was recorded in the Book of Life, just as a literary exercise. If there is a God, and whether or not we consider him a tyrant, as of being fair, and all sorts of awful things, it wouldn’t really make a difference. He is God. You and me are not.
January 6, 2008 at 7:54 pm
The problem is, you don’t understand God by definition, which is the greatest most powerful being. Even Plato deemed this title to God.(He believed there are smaller gods like Zeus and such, and then one more powerful God which all forms resided from).Now to the Christian element for God, we hold that God is well by definition the most powerful being imaginable. With this said, God therefore does only Just things because “evil” or “bad” is a sign of imperfection. Now take us mere humans, how could you honestly expect me to answer everything about the most powerful being imaginable? Something science cannot prove since Hes outside of science, and you expect me to know how exactly hes going to judge people? The Bible only makes brief descriptions because the point of the Bible is not to explain what God is going to do to toddlers or infants, or those who aren’t mentally capable of understanding; but to the unjust. That means those who knowingly do evil. In which no ones perfect and all are evil, and all are deserving of death. Which is why God sent Jesus, so that those who want to be washed clean can. Thats just a brief explanation( don’t comment on what you think about atonement). Romans states that God revealed himself to all men. As well as all men are bound by the laws because in pretty much all societies there exists laws that they created for their societies order. So therefore all are guilty, naturally, as well as willfully. Now God has provided an answer to those who hear the news about Jesus, and those who can understand that. As far as societies that have no heard about Jesus I cannot answer on which standard God judges them on, other then some mentions in Romans about their own laws. The point of the Bible though is for those who can apprehend it, to be saved. Some say that God is committing atrocities and that God manipulated this or that, or is merciless. The problem is, is that God has said we are all evil and all deserve death. Therefore God can judge who he wants, and send them to the punishment they deserve and if God is the greatest possible being, He therefore can read into the hearts minds and perhaps the beyond in those he judges. In other words if He judged a group of people to all be killed, He is able to see far more then what we can see. We change our minds on things constantly, people can easily fall to deception because of a politicians, religious figures, or whatever can cause a person to change. With that in mind, we are imperfect ourselves, and often times are guilty of doing what we accuse others of doing. (For example Ted Haggard committed a terrible sin(whether or not hes a Christians thats up to God to determine). We can’t even follow the rules we make up to ourselves in personal laws we create, our societies standards on morals and laws, as well as religious laws we “make up.” So how can we expect to have the hindsight to say whether a group of people, like those God commanded the Hebrews to slay, are only evil all the time. I don’t believe God is what you say he is, and the Bible tells us this in its many times God has spared evil places like Nineveh, or having to go down to Sodom himself to see if the outcry from that wicked place was as bad as it was in heaven. In which Abraham pleaded with God over and over again, until God said if I find even 10 believers in Sodom I will spare the city. God saved the Hebrews many times despite their unbelieving and even compared them to an adulterous spouse, and yet still kept them going even to this day. Finally God sacrificed himself, to suffer on the cross and to really feel and understand human suffering first hand, in order for all to be saved.
February 24, 2008 at 3:07 am
The answer is the statement. End of debate.
February 24, 2008 at 10:07 am
Rowley, clearly it’s not the end of the debate as I have no idea from your statement if you support my position or brooksrobinson’s? How about expressing an opinion and becoming a part of the debate rather than unfairly declaring an end to it?
February 24, 2008 at 10:14 am
And brooksrobinson’s inability to provide any answers to my questions is a perfect example of why I have a problem with religion. How can someone dedicate their lives to something which they clearly have such a tremulous grasp of? If you don’t even know if the god you are worshiping is going to send your mentally handicapped child to burn in eternal torment, how can you possibly continue to worship him and encourage others to do so as well?
August 17, 2009 at 8:51 am
God will not send an innocent child to hell. He had not yet known what is right and what is wrong. Yes we are all sinners but an innocent baby who does not know anything at all about God I do not see God sending them to hell. Theres an age that we all become accountable to God, but i honestly don’t know when that age is. I would say that it is the age where we come to acknowledge that we are sinners and in need of a savior. We are all born with a sin nature but little babies just born and just learning cannot know that they are sinners in need of a savior thats why we have to raise them in a church and when they are old they will not depart from the truth that sets all men free.
June 29, 2008 at 6:16 pm
doubtingthomas,
I am not a Christian nor do I believe in Jesus per se (I am Hindu). Since I haven’t read your prior comments (nor have I read anyone elses), I might be off base here. But I think you’re misinterpreting what the Bible says OR those that started this topic are.
“f you don’t even know if the god you are worshiping is going to send your mentally handicapped child to burn in eternal torment, how can you possibly continue to worship him and encourage others to do so as well?”
I’m only going to respond to this portion because Im not sure what you’re asking (besides this). BUT, although I havent read the Bible, I am positive that GOD does not send anyone to hell who cannot make cognitive choices. It can be interpreted from the Bible that all children, until they reach an age of adulthood, are considered innocent and therefore all children, be it 1 or 12 cannot go to hell for any reason. Furthermore, any mentally disabled individual, 5 years old or 75 years old cannot go to Hell either. That is the general consensus among Christians.
July 2, 2008 at 6:05 am
Sam,
Thanks for stopping by and voicing your opinion. You said – “I havent read the Bible, I am positive that GOD does not send anyone to hell who cannot make cognitive choices”. How, Sam? How are you POSITIVE? I’m sorry, Sam, but what you are doing is HOPING that God won’t send people to hell that aren’t capable of making cognitive choices for themselves. Only a fool would place their fate in the hope that a thing is true. You say – “It can be interpreted from the Bible that all children, until they reach an age of adulthood, are considered innocent”. Again, I’m sorry, but it can be interpreted from the bible that ALL children are born SINNERS. There is no such thing as innocent, at least not according to the bible. What you are suggesting is that God gives a free pass to children who are too young to make a cognitive decision for themselves and/or the mentally handicapped/retarded/brain damaged. I suppose we also must include those that have never even heard of Christ, as well as all those who died long before Christianity was created, and also those ancient people who naively invented and worshiped other gods, and that unfortunate fellow who was off hunting when the missionaries came to visit his tribe and on the way back was eaten by a jaguar, etc. But then this begs the question, what is the cut off age? In other words when is a child capable of making this life altering decision for themselves? Five? Seven? Twelve? Eighteen? And just what level of mental retardation is the tipping point? Do those with Down Syndrome get the free pass even though many are highly functional. What about a serial rapist and murderer who got into an accident and as a result of severe brain injury became mentally retarded and lost all memory of his previous self? And who decides? You? I’ve heard SOOOO many different ages given by various Christians on this topic that the only thing that is clear is that all of their answers are completely arbitrary and based on nothing but personal opinion. Let’s face it, when a child is considered an adult has always been dependant on the time and culture.
And suggesting that anything you said could be referred to as “general consensus among Christians” is preposterous. If I’ve learned anything from dealing with Christians, it is that if you line up a hundred and ask them all the same bible related question, you will likely get a hundred different answers. For a small example of this, check out another of my posts, or rather the comments I received from it. They address this very topic. I urge you to read them all to gain a better perspective of the division among Christianity. This is the link:
Thanks again for stopping by, Sam. Be sure to visit my main page (https://doubtingthomas426.wordpress.com/ ) and check out my other posts.
Take Care,
DoubtingThomas
June 23, 2012 at 8:07 pm
“If you could have a rational conversation with a religious person there would be no religious people.” -House
I have seen numerous debates on this and other theological subjects, none have ever been declared a winner nor will they. Since one party’s argument is that there is no God and the other party’s argument is that there is a God, this instantly becomes a personal insult and attack which galvanizes the insulted party to stand their ground and defend their beliefs despite any evidence presented to them.
Only time will change peoples beliefs, beliefs that they can only change once faced with new discovery,evidence, and fact.
Fortunately, we have entered an age of scientific development. Soon, mankind will discover more of the origins of the Universe and himself which will further to advance us as a species.
The fact that these debates are taking place in public at all is a sign of our evolutionary advancement.
Live long and prosper.
March 9, 2013 at 11:07 am
For arguments sake, let’s just say that everyone who doesn’t accept Christ as their savior goes to Hell. What is Hell, besides the grave and the separation from God. Suppose that all mankind, infant or not, goes to Hell. So what? On Judgment Day, all souls in Hell are brought out to be judged. We do not know anything about Hell, except that there are places of torment within it, according to the Bible. Hell could have many levels, places, dimensions, be ad infinitum, or whatever. No one knows. For the purpose of debate, since no one knows, it makes no difference. The Bible says that God will judge everyone according to their deeds and no will will utter a peep of protest, since His judgments are right and true. I’ll leave that there.
July 26, 2013 at 8:52 pm
You actually make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this matter to be actually something which I think I would never understand.
It seems too complex and extremely broad for me. I’m looking forward for your next post, I will try to get the hang of it!
September 30, 2013 at 10:01 pm
when i see so many Very Blessed men and women out there that have met one another with a family today, it certainly very much upsets me since i am no different than they are and would had certainly wanted the same thing. why does God punish many of us men like this? why don’t he punish the people that really would deserve to be punished?, and he should leave us innocent people alone. then again with so many very mean women out there nowadays, that does really make it much harder finding a good one too.
April 11, 2014 at 9:47 am
sup
November 7, 2015 at 5:27 am
When does God Not punish?