Nicole’s comment, I moved it here

 Nicole’s comment originally posted on my main page (https://doubtingthomas426.wordpress.com/). It really doesn’t belong there as it is a response to a comment I made on someone else’s blog so I moved it here.

Some thoughts – as per our discussion on mendingshift.wordpress.com ….

Some of the comments only made sense in light of the discussion – ie.  seeing Christ in the flesh… we had been discussing what we would do, upon seeing Him, if He were to return in our lifetime.  Would I also treat Him as a heretic?  To which I said no – Because of what He is doing in me….  I think that hope in Christ is better placed than hope in myself.   I believe that, not in the fingers-crossed sense – but in the eagerly anticipating sense.  You want to make logical, and rational, things that cannot be explained.  I can not Prove God’s existence in my life to you.   I think there is a ton of back and forthness, if we want to get into things like the flood.  I think there are men who have addressed these things at length, better than I can.  (ie.  http://www.answersincreation.org/noahark.htm )  I assume you may call this a cop out – I quite simply don’t have the time, nor the necessity, to do all the researching myself – but trust you can find some of the answers there from more credible sources. To some of the statements I made – I was mostly quoting, to the best of my recollection, some verses from Scripture – me: “I  can only love Him because He first loved me.”  you: Huh? Please explain what in the world this is supposed to mean.answer: 1 John 4:19 – “We love Him because He first loved us.” me:  He (God) pursues All of His sheep, and that He will not lose any.you: Can you please define ‘sheep’ for me. I have to assume you mean Christians and not simply humanity. If so, then your statement suggests that your God would never allow a Christian to ever become anything but. Obvious this is not true. If, instead, ‘sheep’ refers more to the all inclusive humanity then, again, this is obviously an untrue statement.answer: John 6:39 – “And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.”I take “sheep” to mean the elect – those God has chosen for salvation.  I do mean Christians.  I do believe that, as the above verse states, Jesus will not lose any of His sheep (Christians).   I believe the Bible clearly teaches that there are those set aside, for salvation (forgiveness of sins, heaven, etc) from before the time when God created the world (see also Ephesians 1:4 for example)This ties in with “I love Him, because He loved me.”  I believe God works, in a saving way, in the hearts of His children/elect/Christians – before they do anything to reach out and believe in return.  I believe that all of mankind is dead in his sins – that is, he has no ability to reach out to God, nor any desire to, apart from God creating that desire in him.  Spiritual darkness is a term for anyone who does not know God, in a saving sense.  The Bible talks alot about eyes being blind and hearts being hardened.  Romans especially talks about the state of man, before the Lord intervenes in his life.  I was not saved out of any glamorous sinful lifestyle – merely the daily sort.   And – I apologize for the “empty, fanciful, prosaic, unoriginal, lyrical, nonsensical phrases.”  I was talking with other believers, and never thought about the fact that there are others reading it – who don’t get it….  Thank you for asking for clarification. I am intrigued – you know ALOT of the scary passages – ask 1000 Christians who Jephthah is, and see if any remember – but you did not realise I was pretty much quoting the Bible on Jeromy’s blog… is that intentional?  Are you looking for the worst?   Do you actually want answers, or are you seeking to create doubt in others?  Also find the 426 reference an interesting combo with the DoubtingThomas…  🙂   I don’t believe that the God I present is the same one that many will within the Christian church.  And, naturally, we all think we are right….  I firmly believe that – good or bad – God is doing all for His glory (Romans 9 again).  I also believe, as Laurel stated – that we do not deserve any more than the angels got – who, though we were created lower than, still received the gift of redemption that they do not have a chance at.   You want God to be responsible for man’s sin.  For not creating a way out for everyone.  You see Him, perhaps, as evil for allowing evil….  You have a premise “God should be like…..”  and go out from there….. I don’t know the best place to continue this – it will get lost here on the main page.  If you post on my blog – or start a new thread, I’d be happy to keep going…  Sorry, for any of the explanations that make no sense – please ask for further clarification, if you need it!

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One Response to “Nicole’s comment, I moved it here”

  1. doubtingthomas426 Says:

    [[[me: “I can only love Him because He first loved me.” you: Huh? Please explain what in the world this is supposed to mean.answer: 1 John 4:19 – “We love Him because He first loved us.”]]]

    Nicole, how is this an explanation/answer? All you’ve done is repeat yourself. To love someone because they first loved you is utter nonsense. This is in no way a reason. You’re falling back into that religious rhetoric trap I mentioned previously. PLEASE, do yourself a favor and don’t do that. It does nothing to help the non believer understand where you’re coming from and simply comforts the believer with sweet, familiar phraseology.

    [[[I believe God works, in a saving way, in the hearts of His children/elect/Christians – before they do anything to reach out and believe in return. I believe that all of mankind is dead in his sins – that is, he has no ability to reach out to God, nor any desire to, apart from God creating that desire in him.]]]

    Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding, but you seem to be suggesting that God has chosen who will reside in heaven with him even before they had decided to worship him. Is that so? Also that those who choose to worship God do so not by choice but because God created that desire in them? I hope I’m misunderstanding as this is a truly appalling idea. According to your explanation, hundreds of millions of people who don’t/didn’t worship your god, and are therefore doomed to burn in eternal hellfire, never had a chance because your god CHOSE not to pick them (create the desire). Therefore, GOD sent them to hell. Apparently there is no free will in your religion?

    You ask if I’m looking for the worst in the bible. No, Nicole, but you don’t have to look for it to find it. On the other hand, you DO have to purposefully avoid it to not be dumbstruck by the cruelty of your alleged creator. And I AM looking for answers, it’s just that few of the faithful seem able to provide any, instead relying on rhetoric and dogma. FYI, quoting a biblical passage in response to one of my questions/observations is always a bad idea as I equate it to someone defending their favorite celebrity by quoting a passage from the celebrity’s autobiography, when said autobiography has been proven to be full of blatant falsehoods. I’m seeking PERSONAL explanations for people’s faith in their religion.

    [[[ask 1000 Christians who Jephthah is, and see if any remember]]]

    EXACTLY! This is one of my biggest issues with Christians or anyone who doesn’t study, and I mean TRULY study their religious text. YOU MUST STUDY IT ALL. Even the passages that reveal your god to be a cruel, vicious, petulant, egomaniacal monster. You can’t pick and choose. ALL Christians should confront themselves with the god depicted in the story of Jephthah. There are many issues this story brings up and believers should debate them, not ignore them.

    I’m not sure what you find interesting about the 426 in my username. Could you explain? It’s just a sequence of numbers that only has meaning to me that I add to my passwords and usernames whenever my first choice (DoubtingThomas) has already been taken.

    [[[I firmly believe that – good or bad – God is doing all for His glory (Romans 9 again]]]

    You’ve said this God is doing all for his own glory thing before. Why doesn’t this idea disgust you as it does me? If our President did all for his own glory would he be someone you would admire? How about if your child spent their life doing everything for their own glory? This is a really ugly characteristic. I’m not sure why you keep touting it as an example of how great your god is.

    [[[You want God to be responsible for man’s sin.]]]

    No, Nicole, I don’t. What I want is an EXPLANATION for why those who worship God believe he ISN’T responsible. According to the bible, God set up everything to happen. All that has happened has occurred according to his plan. God is perfect. Therefore God set up man to fall. It was his plan. Man never had a chance. You can not defy the will of God. You see, Nicole, I don’t see the god of the bible as being evil for ALLOWING evil, I judge him as being evil based on his depiction in the pages of the bible. What is your opinion based on?

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